Great quote from it here:
"Church isn’t the place where we draw the line at the door and say to those inside the walls ”We are good. We are right. We are done.” Because when we do that we are saying to those outside, “You are bad. You are wrong. You don’t matter.” "
That attitude is earthly, carnal, 'natural' - fleshly. Its how tribes treat insiders and outsiders / exiles. The blogger was right to rebuke it. The poor do feel marginalized in many churches. In fact poor people soon get the message that they are expected to hide their poverty as much as possible or else be quietly shunned. Its subtle, but in a lot of churches admitting to poverty tends to discourage members from issuing invitations or visiting very much. People don't want friends they fear will bring drama into their lives or be a drain on their resources. (Discernment is called for, of course, but plenty of people aren't praying about when they should and shouldn't get involved. They are just avoiding - as a personal policy - anyone and anything that isn't materially advantageous.) Obviously poor people can attend church services for quite awhile, participating when they can, and find out they are not even considered 'real' members, but external 'mission' cases who show up now and then (and that is if this is an active helpful type of church! ) Add in the retreats, get-together brunches at restaurants, group youth dates, pressures to contribute to big gifts for the leadership, and supplies for studies and so on that poor people just can't do, and its not hard to see how they can end up feeling marginalized every kind of way. Not all churches mean to do this, but many don't really care about it either. After all, poor people are not great
One Dear Christian Lady tells me that in a number of churches, those who have been poor once themselves are likely to help quietly with expenses like these. Cool, but why is the church's default policy making poverty - and those helping with it - something that the wise have to keep secret? How does this honor the instructions we have not to discriminate between rich and poor? I realize that the Church today isn't holding all things in common, but perhaps a stronger look at the implicit attitude of poverty = lower status in the church as a problem would be helpful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's not entirely related, but, unfortunately, this post triggered my desire to rant about how BAD 'churches' treat poor people since I just had another show of how UNChristlike the local church is when our Jeep broke down again this weekend. It happened while we were out buying the few groceries we could afford at the end of the month with another winter storm on the way. I was already feeling strapped - still having medical and financial trials - and then the car wouldn't start. DH's health wasn't up to fixing it this time. We had to get a tow home. Exactly one person helped us move the car. Meantime one of the 'church ladies' goes by sniggering and smirking, obviously enjoying our problems (God says He hates that attitude btw) and congratulating herself on being better off financially, clearly believing it's proof she's morally/spiritually superior too.
Help us? Care? Hardly!
I still love Jesus and the Bride, but this kind of stuff angers me so much that it may not sound like it sometimes. I still see good words and actions from Christians online. I know I am not the last real believer in the world. I honor the missionaries and everyday brave souls who may read this who would have stood against such garbage if it happened around them. Don't think I am lumping you in with clowns like that. I'm not. May God bless you always!
Its just that I am currently still mostly isolated here by the deliberate actions of evil people - some of whom pretend to be Christians when it suits them.
Yes, I am *still* facing trials (financial and medical,) and I get no help at all from the neighborhood 'church' - in fact they have run their mouths a lot, threatened even, but never done any GOOD at all.
They have never offered to help - not so much as a helping hand or old part to help with repairing our old equipment, a warm casserole, or even a sympathy card. They have actively discouraged others from treating us kindly - knowing that Jesus calls us to treat everyone, even enemies with kindness.
They DID try to insist I come to their Bible study so they could tell me how to be a better Christian.:P Frankly, I see nothing from them any wise believer would emulate, nor do I expect anything like real fellowship from this self-justifying clique who have done us only harm for decades.
You know what, despite what they think, God WILL rescue us again from our current trials whether they participate or not. (It's be a miracle if they did.) When God is for us, it doesn't matter who is against us!
& as for the being poor thing - Jesus lived as a homeless person for much of his ministry on Earth, and this elitist attitude is specifically rebuked several times in the NT. Some people teach that true followers of Jesus won't be poor because of the blessings of the New Covenant. I see that God can bless His followers however He wants, and promises to cover our desperate needs, but the scriptures make it really clear that there will be Faithful Followers of Jesus Who Are Broke - Yea, even unto the Last Days (now)
Here's the Holy Spirit speaking to an impoverished group of believers in Smyrna in The Last Days (now)
8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.
9 “‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander[a] of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’
Here's the mention of a 'rich church' in the same era (now) Revelation 3:14-22
14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
So, anyway, I wrote this growl about these rotten fruit bearers locally .... and I still feel like posting it. You can ignore the rest if you like. I won't blame you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Church isn’t the place where we draw the line at the door and say to those inside the walls ”We are good. We are right. We are done.” Because when we do that we are saying to those outside, “You are bad. You are wrong. You don’t matter.”
You want to know how bad it can get?
That negative prideful message of 'we inside are good' (regardless) and you outside are bad (regardless) is EXACTLY what the "church" nearest us gives out as their most consistent 'witness.' As long as they can call themselves a church they hide behind a mantle of respectability they have no real claim to, because I do not believe they care about living the gospel of Jesus Christ. I rather doubt they believe very much in His existence. These are the sorts of 'Christians' who feel that being chosen to represent their social club to a conference is proof of how 'holy' they are, never mind how they act or talk outside service.
As a matter of fact these local 'church-goers' are among the most evil acting people I have ever had the displeasure to encounter anywhere. We have good reason to suppose that they are behind the hostile gossip pogrom my husband's family received starting 40 years ago, after his Dad stopped an attempted heist of silver batteries going off base (several people from the neighborhood may have been involved and were leaders in this 'church') I lost count of the times we saw them spreading malicious, prideful rubbish to each other in the parking lot, and shouting insults to us (and others) who went by. My husband's family is still convinced that all Christians are total hypocrites who just pretend to be better than others - SPECIFICALLY because of these bozos.
(For years, even my husband thought I was a good person *in spite* of my strong Christian beliefs. Now that he knows Jesus himself, he knows better. It is Jesus who makes it possible for us to express goodness and patience well beyond personal limits.)
This 'neighborhood church' has made a habit of saying, thinking, and doing evil to those who literally are neighbors to them, in defiance of Christ's instructions. Several of them threatened our children's lives (at a yell) when they were small. The worst was when prominent members threatened kidnapping and dismemberment to our then toddler daughter 'as a joke' - in town. A number of times a group of them made loud comments after services about how easily our house could burn down, while others of them chortled. (Gave my kids recurring nightmares.) Several encouraged their children to mock ours from their playground over the years, when they weren't trying to make them feel bad they weren't playing with them. People attending there have blatantly encouraged others to vandalize our property and stop drainage ditches (which ended up damaging their buildings, but not ours.) They know we've had medical and financial trials but they just giggle when they see signs of it (like when the car went out again the other night) and treat it as proof that we deserve the dish of satanic attitudes what they've consistently dished out. When hubby was a teen he knew of several times when the local kids framed him for their crimes, knowing the neighborhood would be good with that, as he was basically their Jew. They got used to everyone being okay with lying about and picking on him, beating on him, and then it ramped up. Whenever anything went wrong in the area, they tried to put hubby's name up for it, and at least one goofball group used us as a target because of it, not knowing us personally at all. A number of them actually went to whatever church we sought to attend and witnessed a bunch of lies at whoever started to befriend us. Yes, really.
[Sadly a number believers don't understand that you can't trust the words of those who regularly slander others, even though it says so in the Bible. Some of the real Christians elsewhere told us, and that they wouldn't believe it, but the damage was still done. The REAL message was that anyone who wanted to befriend or help us in the name of the Lord - could pay a price for it, and there are not that many brave souls out there. Churches rarely respond to such situations as a group. In fact they usually pretend this kind of stuff doesn't happen and/or that it isn't their problem. A few people have stood by us anyway, but not many. There might have been more, but I knew that several of the good hearted, intelligent, brave few were in vulnerable situations themselves, and let the relationships lapse for their sake. I wouldn't be much of a friend if I had wished them to endure what we have. A Word was spoken over me as a kid, that I would be an "Elijah" - a voice for God, often without outside support. Now I know why I was warned about the walk ahead. I was going to need to stay close enough to God that we could be good company with each other, and to keep our little family church encouraged.]
I know one of them even went online with it. I KNOW this! We found the connections made to put the bad word out. We found the evidence of it. I also know that between his very poor health and the local abuse focused on her, they don't know my son or daughter at all, because they have always been at home, but that hasn't stopped the local jerks from lying their asses off about both of them! That rotten lying thing they did to the father they now do to children/teens/young adults who have never even spoken to them! The very first time our son went to the local community college, the janitor claimed to know him (they'd never met) and to know he was a thief (never, not even as a little kid) and worse, TO HIS FACE, acting in a threatening manner, and the college refused to do anything about it. They also refused to intervene on the stalking our daughter got when she was there. We attended with her every session to defend her and she STILL got grief... and no justice at all from the authorities there. God has promised to avenge us and I depend on it, because the level of wrong in accusing literal innocents the way they have - --- they got a lot of grief coming from God, that's what!
And it started, and has largely been perpetuated at this so-called 'Church'
And -yes - they definitely tell themselves that they are the good monkeys inside, and those on the other branches deserve whatever poo they feel like flinging.
It outrages me to see so much self-righteousness from such evil-behaving people. We've seen them do a lot of harm with their mouths and actions, but NO GOOD WHATEVER.
GOD IS GOOD
DO YOU REALLY THINK HE IS OKAY WITH YOUR BEING UNRELENTINGLY EVIL??!!
And these idjits have the brass-plated gall to put up signs regularly implying that they are morally superior. That we should come to them to be saved, have fellowship etc..
Currently their sign says (on one side) "The sick go to the hospital"
- probably meaning that 'sick' both ways... I know that by now they've heard now I was in the hospital and then filing for help on the bills that the hospital resisted giving me at first, but I now finally been promised relief from it, no thanks to anything they did. Praise God that HE is always there for me!
The other side says "Tomorrow is not a promise"
Put 'em together and it sounds like ill-wishing (which God hates,) and it is likely that this is exactly what is meant.
They've done plenty of 'clever' signs over the years. Mostly we just roll our eyes at the hypocrisy.
They aren't always aimed at us, but we've never been blessed by them except (when they were really egregious) to think that - Hey, maybe God will decide it's time to bless us greatly to show them how little He thinks of their judgmental, hate-filled rubbish. Now, God? Please?
Actually, fewer signs have been as evil-feeling in the last few years, but they are still reinforcing their materialist outlook. The last 'good' sign was "I sing for joy at the work of your hands" & (approximately) "I am doing a new thing" (notice that God is only implied, not mentioned in either case) - because they are renovating the facade & foyer and like what the workmen are doing. Yes, I saw what you did there. ha ha :P
Probably they are still telling themselves that DH wants to be a wizard and that I can't be any kind of Christian because I don't attend church each week. (Never mind the role they played in this!) So a little threatening-sounding judging stuff might 'bring us to faith?' Well that's how they might put it when pretending it isn't pure evil. I think what they really want is more like us cowering before them, which won't happen...ever...no matter what. People do that to gain mercy anyway, and I don't believe they have ever seen them express any pure good will of any kind, just networking kinda things for each other. They've only ever done even a few public charity type things - and certainly nothing for the downtrodden locally, most especially nothing for those that they down-trod themselves. If we are ever doing really well THEN they would want to prove how 'kind' they are, or cynically try to mend fences while shifting as much blame for their abuse as possible onto other shoulders, especially that of their targets. Any and everything we've said or done in our defense will be used as "proof" that they were "provoked" - even if they finally accept that their behavior concerning us has been consistently Anti-Biblical.
I sincerely doubt I will ever see them offer any help while we could really use it, let alone in atonement for the evil their group has done to this family over many years.
& That will be my response. You have done this, this, and this - slandered, gossiped, shown pride, contempt, hostility, judgmental arrogance, cursed us with evil words, and more....
YOU HAVE DONE AND SAID MUCH EVIL -
BUT WHEN DID YOU DO ANYTHING GOOD?
WHEN DID YOU CARE WHAT THE TRUTH ACTUALLY WAS CONCERNING US?
No you just wanted to justify the garbage you'd said before.
WHAT MADE YOU THINK YOU HAD THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OUR SITUATION?
Here's a shock for you. You were never authorized to judge whether we were 'really that sick' or not - or anything else. You gave the worst witness in the world to my mother-in-law. Living Jesus before her would have been to show grace, forgiveness, restraint, love... a better way, not confirmation that 'everyone' sits in hateful judgment on everyone else. You told so many ugly stories - even about each other. If she and the others in that clan die unsaved, it will be their choice, but Jesus will be talking to you about your witness to her - and to all of that family.
WHEN WILL YOU FACE THAT SPREADING UGLY RUMORS WAS UNGODLY?
WHEN DID YOU SAY ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT US?
As much as you watched us, you must have seen something you could have praised. Admit, at least, that we are brave and love each other.
WHEN DID YOU PRAY FOR OUR NEEDS?
And I mean real prayers that genuinely wished us well, not the <say ugly thing> 'bless their hearts' routine... Yep, I grew up Southern. I know that game. I don't think much of it.
WHEN DID YOU EVER TRY TO HELP ANY OF US WITH ANY NEED?
As much as you watched us, you must have seen something you could have praised. Admit, at least, that we are brave and love each other.
WHEN DID YOU PRAY FOR OUR NEEDS?
And I mean real prayers that genuinely wished us well, not the <say ugly thing> 'bless their hearts' routine... Yep, I grew up Southern. I know that game. I don't think much of it.
WHEN DID YOU EVER TRY TO HELP ANY OF US WITH ANY NEED?
WHEN DID YOU EVER APOLOGIZE OR REPENT OF YOUR EVIL IN ANY WAY?
NO, DEMANDING THAT WE COME IN TO YOUR "SERVICES" TO PUT UP WITH YOUR ABUSE AT CLOSE QUARTERS DOES NOT COUNT AS BEING "FRIENDLY." I have no intention of entering into any co-dependent abusive relationships with anyone. Just give that idea up for the foolish dream it is. If you have no respect for me, I shall have no respect and no time for you. Its that simple.
You are so proud of yourselves, and I see nothing to be proud of. You've been nothing but ugly the whole time I've known you - which is over 20 years now. You want to convince me that you are Christians at all - let alone "witness" to anyone - show me how you've repented. Do and Say LOVING things, because GOD is LOVE and LOVE IS NOT ABUSE.
It just ticks me off when someone claims the 'Christian' high ground while being arrogant, unloving, unhelpful, disrespectful, and otherwise Anti-Jesus-ish. How dare you!
/RANT
They seem incapable of repentance - but God still does miracles, so I won't say its impossible. ALL things are possible with God.
No comments:
Post a Comment